This post is in response to a very conscientious question posed me by lidstrom82 in a comment on my blog entry ���Christianity: Religion or Psychosis���.

Which prompts me to ask, realmen, psychology aside, what do you have against Christianity personally?


Funny you should ask. There are several examples of the reasons why in your post, and I���ll get to that momentarily. But first, I want to put it on the record that I believe everyone has the right to believe whatever they choose, to live their lives however they choose, and to do so freely and without hindrance from anyone else. MY OWN INTENDED HINDRANCES INCLUDED! I believe everyone has a right both to their opinion and to express that opinion in any way they deem appropriate. While I may vehemently disagree with everything Christianity stands for and professes, I would without hesitation stand up for the right of every Christian to have and practice their religion, though I know with certainty most of them would not do the same for me (as a practitioner of a religion that Christians define as an enemy of their faith). The truth is, Christians have MADE me an enemy of their faith, it did not occur in isolation.

They say a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing, and Lidstrom you have read my comments and made certain assumptions based on things you have studied. You seem also to be assuming that my hatred of Christians is not just about their behavior, and that somehow what I���m talking about isn���t REALLY the issue. By professing to have knowledge of me and my inner life, you are committing one of the acts that I find so abominable in Christians. But read on���

You said:
Let me get this straight: Christianity is a self-inflicted disease,


Nope, not what I said. I said Christianity is an induced mental illness, not an organic one. As in, it���s something that one person (or group of people) induced in another, it didn���t just happen by itself. You don���t see people just spontaneously fall down in an epiphany and worship Jesus, they always require someone else to plant the ideas in their head first. There has never been a single account of someone who has never been exposed to Christianity speaking about a mystical experience with Jesus! (Or Mohammed, Or Buddha, or Krishna, or Shiva, or the Great Pumpkin ��� I���m an equal opportunity blasphemer! ;-)

The problem begins with their philosophy. They believe, in utter contradiction to the entire body of knowledge humankind has accumulated over the past centuries, that the Earth was made by a male god figure in just seven days. They believe that Homo Sapiens Sapien was made out of mud (and apparently that the essential nature of humankind is male ��� because wasn���t the first human male?) and his mate (a female, an obviously lesser creature) was made from his rib and was subject to the rule and will of the male. Now we know scientifically that this cannot be true, any of it. There are Christians out there who believe Dinosaurs never existed because God didn���t make any mention of them in the Bible. I know what you���re saying, you���re not one of those, but hold on���

Flash forward to the whole Jesus debacle. First and foremost, never mind the fact that the entire mythology around Jesus is based on a retelling of the stories of Zarathustra (or Zoroaster, if you prefer), other things they report about Jesus are simply contextually inaccurate historically. Specifically, that he was unmarried and celibate all of his life. He was a JEW, and the eldest son, his marriage would have been planned and anticipated from a very early age, especially given his proclivities and facility with religion! The likelihood that he would have remained unmarried until his death is so remote as to be unworthy of consideration. Even the most elementary application of Ockham���s Razor would lend more credence to the story told in the ���Da Vinci Code��� than the story as related by the Bible. Which makes more sense to you: 1) A 33 year old Jewish man hangs out with 12 guys all the time, but is heterosexual, is something of a public figure, and he doesn���t have sex or even a girlfriend because he���s really the son of God on a Divine Mission, or 2) A healthy, red-blooded, heterosexual 33 year old Jewish Rabbi who travelled extensively, was a known public figure, married one of his converts, impregnated her, and then was executed for stirring up trouble among the locals, and his wife and child had to run for their lives to escape the same fate from the tyrannical Romans. You do the math!

So with some very questionable philosophical foundations, let���s consider the Christian Demographic. Who is the typical die-hard Christian? They are typically less educated on average (High School and Undergraduate, if that, as opposed to Graduate Level and Post Doc), they tend to view the world in absolute terms only (it���s black or white, there is no middle ground), they tend toward elitism (���Only MY religion is valid or worthwhile, and only me and those like me are worthwhile human beings, we���ll pray for the rest of you.���), they tend to dislike new knowledge (especially that which contradicts any piece of knowledge they already have, however trivial or mundane), they stubbornly hold onto their ideas even when faced with incontrovertible proof of the invalidity of their ideas. In short, they don���t often benefit by new learning because their minds are closed to anything but what they already know.

Now, if that was where it ended, there would be no problem. As I said, I believe everyone has the right, nay, the OBLIGATION to believe whatever they choose and live their lives accordingly. But with one caveat: You must afford the same right to others equally, not just in words, but in deeds. Did you know that there are only a handful, actually I think it���s just four, religions in the world that actively seek new converts? What does that say to you about those religions and their ambitions? Christianity, Islam, Hare Krishna, and Scientology. If you know of others, please post them here.

So imagine you are standing on a street corner somewhere and a person comes up to you and asks you if you���ve given thanks to the Great Pumpkin today. When you say ���No,��� they say ���Well have you asked the Great Pumpkin to come into you heart and wash away your sins?��� By this point, the human reaction is what? To express incredulity, offense, confusion? If you just politely say ���The Great Pumpkin is not a part of my system of belief.��� Might arouse retorts of ���You will burn in Hell for denying Him! Come back to the Great Pumpkin, renounce the Evil One and come back home to the Great Pumpkin. The Great Pumpkin will turn your lost life around and bring meaning to it for the first time!��� blah blah blah���

Look at all the presuppositions in the questions asked. ���Have you thanked the Great Pumpkin today?��� assumes A) He exists, B) He has done something worthy of thanks, C) You should thank him, D) You should do it daily. If I were an attorney I���d object that each of those assume facts not in evidence! ���Have you asked the Great Pumpkin to come into your life and wash away your sins?��� Assumes A) The Great Pumpkin exists, CAN come into your life, and CAN wash away something called ���sin���, B) Something called ���sin��� exists, you have an abundance of it and it is undesirable in the heart C) The Great Pumpkin is the only option for washing away ���sin��� D) Your life is somehow needing because you haven���t asked for the Great Pumpkin���s help. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

The point is this. Would you want advice from someone who is clearly delusional? No, of course not. They clearly do not have all the information they need to make an informed prescription for anyone, since they clearly have not been able to apply to their own life first. So, I get a little resentful when people who don���t have enough common sense to see through a fairy tale try to tell me how to live my life! ;-D

Now, let���s get back to what you said in your post. Let���s take a little closer look at your sentiments. You said:

Real Christians are such because they experienced a loving God that took care of them when no one else could - or would


Presuppositions: A) There are real and ���unreal��� Christians. B) ���Real Christians��� are the only valid ones, C) Only those that have experienced a ���loving God that took care of them��� are ���Real���., D) These things are valuable. Look at who appointed you judge! Can I again object that you���re assuming facts not in evidence? So here again we have a flawed human being making judgments about others and holding those judgments out as standards for comparison. My entire thesis is that what you are taking as fact and demanding others respond to as fact, is really just your opinion, and that opinion is no better or worse, no more accurate or inaccurate than mine. But it���s not being presented as your opinion, you present it as fact. Why is it when I do the same thing, most Christians swallow their tongues, their head rotates 580 degrees, and pea soup comes out of their mouth as they condemn me for doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING? Physician, heal thyself!

Why? Because most people want to know a powerful God that can help them with the troubles of life


Look what you are presupposing here: A) You know what ���most people��� want, B) Your God is the only powerful one, C) Only your God can help people D) It takes a God to deal with the troubles of life, E) ���Most people��� are powerless without God.

Your post, and the posts of your less tactful Christian contemporaries, are filled with these kinds of judgmental OFFENSIVE presuppositions and inferences!

So even in this post of yours in defense of Christianity, you make my point for me. Someone who believes in fairy stories, someone who hasn���t even figured out that he is the only significant force in his own life is trying to tell me ���How things are.���

Throughout history, this kind of thinking has characterized Christian interaction with the rest of the world. They are better than the rest of us because they believe the fairy tales and no one can change their mind. And they convey that they are better than the rest of us in every aspect of their speech and the ways they deal with other people.

But that���s not even the best part! In MY system of belief, (notice how I set that up), the energy of intent is just as real as the energy of action. In other words, there is just as much potential in the intent to turn on a light switch as there is in the actual activity of turning on the light switch. A primary vehicle of intent is language. That is to say I believe both in the power of prayer, the power of magick, and the power of projected intent. In fact I see them as different manifestations of the same concept. One of the most offensive acts that Christians routinely perpetrate against humanity, especially here in the South, is that of public prayer.

How many of you non-Christians have sat through a meal or family gathering where they ���asked a blessing��� over the food you were expected to eat? Did it just make you want to puke when you heard that ���AMEN���? It sure does me! A common component of such Christian prayer is to ���bless this food to Your Service, God, and bring us closer to You���. Think about the intent they have just infused into the food that is meant to nourish your body? They have just put a weapon meant to fight the war they���ve been waging aginst humanity right on your plate and you���re expected to just shut up and eat it! As a non-Christian this amounts to a FORCIBLE infusion of Christian energy into your body! Of course you have the choice not to eat it, but just try to express that and explain it to them! I actually have, and suffice it to say, it doesn���t go well! To pray over food in mixed religious company is just one example of Christian insensitivity and intolerance. It���s an act of spiritual terrorism! It is, by it���s very nature, an act of spiritual RAPE! So yes, the same love a raped woman might extend to her rapist, a non-Christian might express for such Christians.

So lidstrom, when you say things like:

I've prayed for him to know that not all Christians will judge you for everything from your movie collection to a short haircut.


You are in effect working negative magick against me, in the form of praying on my behalf, sending some UNSOLICITED, UNWELCOME, and UNDESIRABLE programmed intent energy to me. That amounts to an attack. And you didn���t even blink as you did it. It takes some pretty judgmental and elitist attitudes to ever imagine that such a thing is appropriate! I assure you, sir (or madam ��� I apologize, I do not conclusively know your gender), I will defend myself and send you some energy back in kind!

Someone commented on one of my other posts that the way I make my point is often wholly obscene and offensive. I want to offend you! When a Christian says to me ���I will pray for you��� or ���God Bless You��� or ���Merry Christmas���, that is incredibly offensive! Christians who affront the world with their public displays of insanity OFFEND THE SHIT OUT OF ME! So why not use their own proclivities toward being offended to deliver the message that offensive behavior is offensive regardless of who does it or for what reason? You offend me, I offend you back. If we are ever to get anywhere, we have to open our fucking eyes and realize that ���Hey, wait a minute, that person I want to communicate with is taking what I���m saying in ways way other than I���ve intended��� MAYBE I SHOULD TRY A DIFFERENT APPROACH!��� But I will dream on��� One of the celebrated definitions of insanity is to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result. So in a sincere and heartfelt desire to elicit different responses from these horribly offensive Christians, I am taking a different approach. And I hope I can so totally offend them as to shock some level of awareness that what they are doing is only making the world an uglier place. I am literally holding up a mirror to them and becoming their equal opposite. If the rules of Algebra hold up, eventually we will cancel each other out, and then maybe some real progress can be made.

So Christians are worthy of hatred because they wantonly attack spiritually all those who are not of their own mindset, they presume that the choices dictated by their religion are the correct ones for everyone in every situation, and they actively seek to suppress every non-Christian idea and person out of a narcissistic need to validate their own shortcomings and ���faith.��� They presuppose at every level that they are wiser than you and that no matter what, if you are not Christian, you are wasting your life. They use negatively programmed intent irresponsibly because their systems of belief do not take the time to teach them how to use it morally, ethically, and responsibly, and they don���t ever have to take responsibility for the harm they do to anyone. They have conducted themselves throughout history as warriors hellbent on eradicating all but their own way of life and they are not subject to making better choices for all concerned because their systems of belief are fixed, set to exclude all new data, and not bound by any manifestation of reason.

But don���t listen to me, I���m just as crazy as they are!

;-D

Q


Comments

  • lidstrom82 said Aug 14, 2006...
    Ok realmen, that's a lot to think over. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that. Let me say a few things to get to some common ground. -Apparently I misunderstood there is a difference between a self-inflicted disease and an induced one. My apologies that it caused some confusion...I sought clarity on that point so as to NOT make an assumption. -the Apostle Paul had an experience with Jesus on the Road to Emmaus, so he'd be a good example of having a "mystical" experience with Jesus. That is from the Bible, so I don't know if that carries much weight, but it is there. -realmen, you quoted the following things from my previous post: 1. "Real Christians are such because they experienced a loving God that took care of them when no one else could - or would" realmen, I live out the Bible as much as I can, and the above is not assumed so much as it comes from the Bible. There are Christians who will do great things but completely miss the point, and in Heaven Jesus will say that they didn't know Him. There are "fakers" in my view because the Bible says so, not because I made my own assumption. Haha, you can chalk it up to "delusions", not "assumptions" :) I mean that as poking fun at myself, not at you. "Why? Because most people want to know a powerful God that can help them with the troubles of life" Let's say you had never been a Christian, realmen. And you were just living life apart from religion with no educated knowledge of any God. If someone told you that a good God created you and loves you, and you can cast your cares on Him so you can live a free life, wouldn't it seem the least bit appealing that someone is willing to help you with any struggles in life? If someone's life is in order, it's easy to refuse that idea, since there's no need for extra help. But when family members die, when someone gets ill, when we don't have the strength to get through difficulties, where else can we turn? I believe that everyone wants to be loved/respected by others in life, in some capacity, and God offers that love. True or not, that's what the Bible claims - that God is love, and that we love because He first loved us. "I've prayed for him to know that not all Christians will judge you for everything from your movie collection to a short haircut." -I believe this is where you made an assumption, realmen. I said that because I have been praying, so that you wouldn't feel judged by Christians. You don't accept that, because it's working negative magick by praying on your behalf. I want to tell you that prayer has power, but it's not negative if I pray for your well-being. I prayed so that you wouldn't feel judged. I think you assumed that prayer has negative effects. Question: if all of Christianity is really a fairy tale delusion with no truth or power to it, why is there negative magickal power in Christian prayer? If it does no good whatsoever, why does it offend? I am deeply sorry that along the road of being in the Southern Baptist church, something led you to believe Christianity is worthy of hatred. I ask you not to assume that all Christians are bad. I ask you not to assume that God is a fairy tale based solely upon your life experience. Your bad experience with, might I suggest, "fakers", does not prove or disprove a very real God to many others. I've done my best not to make assumptions, and it's true that for a Christian, some "basic Christian facts" are so well-known in the church that it's easy to take them for granted, and so when talking to a nonchristian it DOES sound strange at times. Realmen, I've been responding and seeking understanding and challenging some of your beliefs not to tear you down, but to say that I want better for you than the Christian experience you had, and that hatred of Christians isn't the answer to whatever hurt or anger you've felt. When I originally asked you, psychology aside, what you personally had against Christianity, I meant what happened in the church that turned you off from it. You gave many interesting answers about why Christianity is whack, many I've heard before...since I wasn't a Christian until age 17, lots of these make sense to me because I've been on the other side. But those answers did not explain the personal aspect of why Christianity hurt you. I would like to know, with the pretense that I'm not out to prove you wrong. I understand that some things I say sound like assumptions, but like a few of my quotes above, they are said based on verses in Scripture. If you would like, I can quote verses later. To me they aren't assumptions - they're what God says on the matter. So in your eyes, they aren't so much assumptions but part of the psychosis that is Christianity. Last thing, bro. My faith is being tested a whole lot right now because of crappy Christians whose focus is on the religious part, on rules and teachings, and not on Jesus Christ. That's the difference between "real" and "fake" Christians. The fake ones aren't automatically going to Hell - only God would know that - but in my eyes, they really give Christianity a bad name to everyone else. It's fair to be angry at them because they reflect badly on God to others. However, if I use that as reason to hate them, then I only poison myself. I hope that you won't always see Christians as hate-worthy, because I don't want that to poison you. All religion aside, I don't want you to be bitter at others because the harm really is inflicted on you. I say that out of concern, not of judgment or doom-saying. My time is now short, so take care realmen; let's continue this.
  • realmenluvporn said Aug 15, 2006...
    Faithie: And whom do YOU hate? You also have a choice, do you not, to stop making the world an ugly place by spreading your Christian poison. You CHOOSE to offend others, you can stop any time you want, can you not? Lidstrom: I just have three questions for you, we cannot move on until you answer them honestly. 1) Are you aware that the only way to turn your life around at this point is for you to immediately begin practicing Samatha Mediatation daily on the Lord Buddha's benificence? 2) What would have to happen for your biggest doubt about Christianity to be conclusively proven to you in such a way as your perception of what you believed would be forever altered? 3) When was the last time you had an orgasm and what were the circumstances of it's delivery? Copascetic? Q
  • realmenluvporn said Aug 15, 2006...
    Lidstrom: [quote]If they are on entirely different ground, the entire discussion is worthless.[/quote] You're getting it! Q
  • realmenluvporn said Aug 15, 2006...
    Ok Lidstrom: Just so we can all track the assumptions you're making, you are assuming: 1) My feelings are NOT exactly as I have described them to you. 2) You can use the book to explain the book. 3) I give a shit how you live your life where it doesn't pertain to your interactions with me. 4) I feel "judged by Christians." 5) I have no personal experiences of "God" and that I have made conclusions solely as a result of meeting Christians. 6) My knowledge of the books and teachings of your religion is not of greater depth and breadth than your own. 7) Your prayers are welcome, or even appropriate. 8) My only experiences are with Christians of the Southern Baptist variety. 9) I have not met Christians from all walks of life all over the world. 10) That my fundamental position is wrong or inaccurate in some way. 11) Something must have happened at church to put me off it, I couldn't have arrived at my conclusions without that. 12) Jesus "Christ" existed. Lidstrom, bro, you just are not hearing me at a fundamental level. Q
  • FaithMatters said Aug 15, 2006...
    Hate whom you hate and conjure up whatever reasons you can to justify that hatred. But understand one thing: You CHOOSE to hate. To say that some other person or people can create this hatred in you is to give them more power than they deserve, thus rendering you powerless. I will never say anyone ought to do this or that with their life. The path before you is yours to walk. If carrying this hatred with you helps you in some way (anger sure makes one feel strong, doesn't it?), so be it. But please acknowledge that you have free will in all this. You have a CHOICE. To drop this hatred of all Christians, or to carry it with you and continue flaying them with your words.
  • lidstrom82 said Aug 15, 2006...
    Hey again realmen, I once heard of an analogy that went something like this: when two people discuss something, they must share common ground or else their ideologies are on different planes than each other. If they are on entirely different ground, the entire discussion is worthless. Is this discussion worthless? I don't believe so, because I think we both have an axe to grind with Christianity, albeit in different ways. But here is an important point: I don't feel you understand me on a fundamental level either. I believe the assumptions you think I'm making are actually beliefs from the Bible itself. I think you might also be drawing different conclusions from my words. FaithMatters has a point, realmen. You can choose to hate Christians, but does hate solve anything? Does it make you feel better? All I know for sure is that you justify hating Christianity. I must ask you why you have come to hate it. Southern Baptist, Lutheran, whatever churches you've experienced, let me hear the story straight from you so there's less chance for me to make assumptions. I think that'd be the best way to know where you're coming from, because based upon what you've said so far, I don't have a whole lot to go by to understand the motives behind this hatred. In all this, try to remember that if you don't share enough to help others understand, most of what they say could be assumptions - there's little else to go by. What I'll say now is, hatred only goes so far. If someone posted their hatred of another group - say, a certain ethnicity, a gender, an organization...it would be extremely offensive to those involved. Let me give an example. If a white person grew up with their parents in a major city, and then African Americans moved in, triggering the White Flight, and the parents and child grew up resenting blacks for: running the city into the ground, driving them out of their home, ruining the neighborhood, increasing poverty, committing crimes, and generally overtaking most aspects of city life, then there will be resentment. If that person grew up to make a post about hating African Americans similar to yours about Christianity, it would inspire answers about as angry or lengthy as FaithfulDisciple's or mine, respectively. Many people would probably label the poster as prejudiced. However, since Christianity is not widely accepted and practiced in the average American, your post didn't ruffle quite as many feathers. But in a Christian perspective, it's the same: hating any kind of people, instead of the evil things they do, will bring negativity. Hate the sin, not the sinner. Let me ask you a few questions, realmen, in order to know you better and avoid any assumptions. -How did you go from a Southern Baptist background to hating Christianity, and everything that happened in-between? -What is your current religion/belief system/philosophy? -And finally, if Christianity, at least in part, did you wrong and led you to justify hating Christians, why do you think returning the favor with incendiary posts and comments will bring about a positive result in others? If they screwed with you and it led to hating them, why would hating them back do anything good? I do not hate you. You've given me a great deal to think over these past few days, and many things you've said should rightly challenge Christians to live out their faith and beliefs, not get judgmental and lash out at others. I stand by what I know and accept, that Jesus will bring more good in this world than hatred of anyone. I do respect you and would like to know your experience. And yes, I do know my prayers are not welcome. But you did not exactly explain why prayers aren't welcome if all of Christianity is a fairy tale delusion anyways. Wouldn't it be praying to dead air if that were true? You don't owe me a thing, but I am taking to heart what you're saying and earnestly listening. Let's keep this going, realmen.
  • lidstrom82 said Aug 15, 2006...
    Christianity does not teach hate, but its followers, like everyone else on this planet, are flawed and imperfect. The single greatest commandment is to love God, and to love one another, according to the Bible. The Christian message isn't poison, realmen, but some of its followers take it the wrong way. The key is imperfection. Flawed human beings are capable of hate even if they aspire to greater intentions. As for your questions, I'll answer them. I trust that you'll in turn answer mine. As for the comment about being on "entirely different ground", I believe there is. If you should decide there isn't and do not contribute anything that would produce common ground, that's your choice. If you want to hate Christians, do so knowing it severely limits your capacity to live. Don't shoot yourself in the foot, bro. Oh yeah! The questions: 1) My understanding of Buddhism is that Buddha himself never intended to be a god, but was made one after his death. After reading a quotation from "What Is Buddhism?" I do not find adequate answers to the questions of who or what created the earth or us, for that matter. Specifically, no mention of God or a creator is described, and there are too many flaws in theories of evolution or otherwise that sufficiently explain how we got here and why the world exists. Another human being may have different abilities than myself, but is no better or worse in the long run - a life is a life. Therefore, Buddha is no more worthy of my meditation as the 7-11 guy across the street. I can explain in depth why God/Jesus Christ is worthy of my prayers, but for now I think I adequately answered the question. 2) Actually, I'll explain why He's worthy as part of this answer: For God to be conclusively proven without a shadow of a doubt, He'd have to save my life from the pit of despair (like the Princess Bride pit of despair, only much worse). He'd have to come in at a point where I am helpless and hopeless, and turn my life around by giving me something I did not deserve. That is grace - receiving a gift we don't deserve. If I give up on life, I'm like a black hole to everyone around me, sucking away the life from others in my own depression and sadness. I certainly don't deserve much for being so detrimental to others. I nearly committed suicide before finally praying to God. I had nothing else going for me, except staying in my room, home from school, shut away from everyone else from depression and anxiety and more than a little hypochondriasis. After praying, my life turned a complete 180 within a year, and set me on the road to being a whole, loving human being. Nothing else anyone says or does can take that experience away, and though I occasionally suffer some doubts because I'm not perfect, God did fill my greatest need earlier in my life. I believe without a shadow of a doubt because God did fill my greatest doubt, in my darkest hour, in the time of greatest need. I'd have carried out a meaningless life or killed myself if that need stayed unmet. And that is why God is worthy of my prayers and praise. 3) Let me be blunt: it was Sunday, courtesy of my wife, and it was fantastic. Our love life, and marriage, aren't the ideal, but we've done hard work to talk out anything that divides us and to seek understanding, rather than walk out of the room or let problems simmer. We try to nip things in the bud because our friendship before engagement and marriage was a hard one. We hurt each other because we didn't know what we wanted, and when we dated, we hurt each other because we were too busy keeping up an appearance as "the perfect Christian couple" on our college campus. There are times I'm tempted to look back and be bitter at my wife, because I'm only human and i AM capable of bitterness and hate. But knowing God allows me to ask Him for patience, energy, and power to get over my own flaws and to love another person. If it weren't for that, my wife and I wouldn't be married because I'd still be caught up in resenting her. In short, there are very personal reasons for my own belief, and I've done what I can to believe in Christ for a reason, not because it was spoon-fed to me. realmen, I think Alienated said it best in a recent post when he said that just because other people don't know they're sick (sinful) doesn't mean he shouldn't try to share the cure. In the Bible, there are claims that there are false religions and false gods, and that even within Christianity, there are false teachers who focus on traditions and religious habits, money and personal power - anything but God. If I were Satan, I'd want to put many more gods out there as possible, to make the real one less recognizable. In the true God's church, I'd appeal to the selfish desires of the people in the church, to make God look bad to the non-churchgoer. It's a great plan, because it caters to man's desire to rely on his own power. But I can deny that because I know that I owe my life to what God has done for me.
  • lidstrom82 said Aug 16, 2006...
    Hmm, after an overnight shift at work, I got some more thoughts for ya, realmen. I do not believe that to be a Christian is to automatically and intrinsically hate others. There are some devastating, well-known, and damaging examples of people who have hated others and called themselves Christian, but that is not every Christian. There are loving ones out there, and there are some who just come off the wrong way. About beliefs on faith and personal beliefs, it is pretty much God's power that converts people, and the Christian can SHARE it...but if the other person ain't interested it's not exactly something to press. To force God's love upon someone is the opposite of the love God has according to the Bible. Talk about mixed messages. That's where much of the damage comes from for many. Realmen, about the whole fundamental differences thing, and not having common ground, I think it might be fair to say we can't decide on whether our discussion is pointless because, well, you haven't told me much about your side at all, dude! Don't hold out on me bro, I know there's some common ground in there somewhere. You asked in another post if religious tolerance is possible, and I think it is. Yeah, that's about it...I'm tired so I'm out.
  • realmenluvporn said Aug 16, 2006...
    Ok, Liddy, whatever you say. Q
  • lidstrom82 said Aug 16, 2006...
    You don't have to respond realmen, but if you want to war against Christians, I won't argue or fight back, but talk to you and find out who you are. Not to prove you wrong, but to understand you as a human being. If you want to blindly hate Christians, be prepared to back up what you say. If you don't want to, I can't change that, but I don't want you to miss out by discrediting a whole group of people you could learn something from. If (and this is a big if) your contempt for Christians has led you to dismiss everything I've said to help understand you, then without anger or spite, I say that you missed out. BUT - I do respect you, and that also includes the choices you've made, so whatever you have to say from here on out, I'll listen. You have a lot to say and a lot to offer, so blog away.
  • madstorm said Aug 18, 2006...
    Wwwhhhooohhaaaa!! you're sure helping Christians learn to type RMLP!! ... lidstrom82's written a book!! Keep up the good work!!
  • yeahbutnobut said Aug 19, 2006...
    No. I don't think contempt nor hatred is their due, not any more than a mother feels contempt or hatred when the child in utero kicks her. Matter of fact, it gives her a sort of pleasure and reassurance. One day, this frail child is gonna grow up. It's a good feeling.
  • missb said Aug 25, 2006...
    Been reading a lot on your posts and comments RMLP. Wasn't gonna leave any comment but I couldn't help it. Uhm, if I'm not mistaken I've read that you're neither Atheist nor Agnostic and definitely not a Christian. So, just out of curiousity, are you a muslim? I was gonna say that if you're an Atheist, I don't understand why you have to post lotsa christian-bashing posts and feel the need to actually spread "the hate". I mean, it's kinda new for me. I mean of course you have every right to have opinions but to try and drag others into hating sumtin? I dunno. I'm just lost. I'm a catholic but not a devout one. But I still feel a bit offended by some of your posts. I know exactly how you feel, I think. I've had some hardcore christian (not catholic) friends who tried to get me converted to their christianity, and I'm a catholic, for God's sake. And yes, I was pretty much pissed off and in fact ended up disliking the lot of them. But I will never try and get followers. I argued back to them, but I never was looking for allies. You must really hate us, eh... Oh, one more thing. I thought the deep south of America is more christians then catholics? Anyway, enlighten me will ya? Cheers!
  • realmenluvporn said Aug 26, 2006...
    MissB: I am not: 1) Atheist 2) Agnostic 3) Christian 4) Catholic 5) Muslim 6) Going to answer this question directly. Hate is not something, in my view, that can be spread. Hate exists within a person or it doesn't. Sometimes a certain sentiment can touch the hate that lives in people. That always tells where the power is. Where there is hatred, there is always injury. An unhealed wound that doesn't want to be exposed. So I'm glad I offended you, that tells me I touched the unhealed wound in you. When a wound is tender, that's when you're more likely to actually do something about it. That's when it is most subject to healing. If you think about it, I am really transparent. If you know what you're looking for and where to look, you can see right through me. I like to wear the mask of the Devil, but my face is conveying a very different spirit altogether. Remember, we're all here because we want to talk about our opinions, but there's also an element of "let's see how much attention I can attract." More attention means more eyes on your pages. More eyes on pages means more eyes on Google ads. More eyes on ads... Well, you see where I'm going. I posted a blog entry when I first signed on here at SoulCast, one that I have since deleted, that asked why people blog. The first line of that entry was "some people go to therapy, some people crochet, some people drink." I blog. In the deep South of the USA there are far more evangelistic Christians than there are Catholics, you are absolutely correct. If you know that I was "born and raised" in the deep South, except for the years I went to College and the time I spent overseas, you can probably figure out why I am so rabid about this issue. Those of you who are not from the U.S. possibly are not aware of how bad it is here in the Southern U.S.. Where in the UK they are getting issues from Muslims, here in the Southern USA it's all about Jesus and his Freaks. People come around knocking on doors to thump their bibles in the faces of perfect strangers. They dress up in white shirts and black pants with little name tags and they ride bicycles around neighborhoods they don't live in. They are Mormons and they aren't even the worst of the lot. There is a black methodist church in this community who sends people out multiple times a week to go knock on doors to "Spread the 'Good News'." It's in every public place, in every newspaper, and everywhere you turn. The Catholics started it all, the Christians are just the fruit of the poisoned tree. And don't get me started on the Crusades... That's a whole other kettle of fish... RMLP
  • missb said Aug 26, 2006...
    Thanks RMLP. Now I understand where you're coming from. Although in my humble opinion, hate can be spread by the same way of the so-called "brainwashed christians" who were brought up in a christian family, and knew no other thing but. When you're exposed to something over and over again, it will ring true. The same way that if you keep telling yourself you're a genius, your mind will receptively react to it. It doesn't make you a genius but in your own mind you are. Like a child being told over and over that's he's bad, he will believe that he's bad. The same rule applies to hate. Hate for me is in the heart of every human being. Everyone is capable of it. It's just a matter of the perfect timing or specific events that will eventually trigger it. When certain people read your blog who initially didn't have anything against christianity but let's say once or twice they encountered some of those annoying die-hard christians, their perspectives can change. My personal experience towards hate came in a very simple event. My bf hated Cameron Diaz. He said she's a dog and this and that. I used to like her. But after hearing lots of his "vicious comments" bout her, I started seeing the "bad" in her and eventually disliking her :/ Ah well, anyway. That's my two cents. Who am I to debate a psychologist? Oh and mind my English. I'm not a native speaker after all ;) Keep writing RMLP, and God Bless :D *grins*
  • desertsienna2 said Feb 12, 2008...
    Ancient wisdom from the Oracle at Delphi and the New Testament:From the New Testament:The nature of honest belief and faith:Luke 22:6-23 (New International Version) 13They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.  14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."  17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."  17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."  19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."  20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him." 23They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.Luke 22:39-60 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives  39Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." 41He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[a]  45When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46"Why are you sleeping?" he asked them. "Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation."Jesus Arrested  47While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"  49When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.  51But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.  52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns." From the Oracle at Delphi(on false belief and the emptiness of lack of belief)It was unambiguous. When persuaded to seek advice a second time, the oracle gave a way for the Athenians to escape their doom. When Athena approached her father to help her city, Zeus responded that he would grant that "a wall of wood alone shall be uncaptured, a boon to you and your children."[9](applied to Christians and other believers in fear of the reign of disbelief)In 403 BC Lysander, the Spartan victor of the Peloponnesian War was warned to beware "Also the dragon (serpent), earthborn, in craftiness coming behind thee."
  • JadeTora said Apr 6, 2010...
    If I had to guess, I'd say real is probably a Wiccan. His beliefs about magick seem to indicate that and the whole "Christianity has chosen to make my religion their enemy", that said.. I tend to totally 100% agree with him.I am a Chan Buddhist, practitioner of Shaolin Kung Fu and leader of a Buddhist lifestyle. All that aside? I can't say I'm a very good Buddhist because I can't say that I haven't felt the exact way he's felt about Christians here. I live in the South as well, I came from Australia to the Deep South United States, here in Alabama where there are literally roads that have churches right next to other churches and I can say all the things that he says about Christians are true.I am constantly harassed, they constantly push their religion and beliefs into my face and constantly try to convert me. Well, either convert me or more often than not as is redundant at this point of this thread and my post, offend the hell out of me.More often than not when I meet a Christian I desperately want to stop being the bigger person, give into my baser instincts and proceed to savagely beat them shitless. Take that how you want but I will say this, there are only a handful of things in the world that illicit such an extreme desire from me. Christians are at the top of that list.It's not just one or two either, it is the majority whether you want to admit it or not.

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